Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 8:35 AM To: steve@familydobes.com Subject: Nutrition
Hi Steve
I need some help! I'm thinking of switching Izzy to a raw diet but have several questions/concerns. First of all, what are your thoughts on feeding raw and, specifically, following the BARF diet? It seems like everyone is on board with the raw meaty bones and organ meat part of it, but disagrees on the vegetable, supplements and milk product side of things. Secondly, any thoughts on whether to buy everything fresh and prepare it myself, or to buy pre-made frozen foods. If I'm supplying everything fresh (which is what I'm leaning toward) I feel really overwhelmed buy the whole idea. Such as: Where do I get all this nasty stuff (chicken backs and necks, turkey necks, cow hearts etc...)? How do I make sure the diet is balanced without the task of feeding my dog taking over my life? What do I do when we are traveling? Also, should I be aware of any risks associated with feeding raw? You get my drift!
So basically, any thoughts or suggestions you might have are welcomed! No hurries though. I won't switch unless I'm completely comfortable with the whole thing. As an aside, I'm feeding Royal Canin right now.
I guess I should tell you my reasons for thinking about a raw diet. I want to give Izzy the best diet possible to support good health. I walked through the pet store and read the label on just about every food out there. Corn corn corn! Usually the first, or one of the first, ingredient. So I started reading some article online. I'm a little unsettled by the fact that I've yet to find any actual research papers on feeding raw, but maybe I'm just searching in the wrong place. Also, in a way "dog food" has always seemed a little suspect to me. Even as I kid I wondered "what's in there and how can they live on that? It doesn't look much like food." Then you just kind of begin to accept that this is what dogs eat. Now I'm questioning if it really is meeting her needs in the best way possible. Sort of like my getting protein from a big mac instead of grilled chicken. So that's how I got started down this path.
Thanks for your help
Shelly
Wow you opened up a can of worms :) I am all on board for Raw when people are feeding it with a reason and understanding of nutrition. Most people I see feeding raw do it because it is trendy or they heard it was good or whatever, but they don't understand nutrition. I studied nutrition heavily in college, and I have fed dogs all kinds of things for 20 years and I came away with the conclusion that you just can't duplicate nature closely enough in your own kitchen, and feeding raw has shown no real advantage over a good kibble long term. Remember "In the wild" animals aren't just eating raw meat and organs etc, they are also eating decomposing carcasses and all kinds of other things you wouldn't dream of bringing in to your home, but it is a necessary part of their overall diet for one reason or another. "Natural Diets" should closely resemble what really occurs in nature, but also consider how many malnourished wild animals they are, by feeding processed diets we are in a sense giving them a more complete diet at every serving, with no fluctuation where in the wild their diets fluctuate dramatically. I really would avoid raw for all the concerns your raised, it just is too complicated and does take over your life, and then you can't ever have any one else care for the dog, and you didn't really gain anything by it. I am always amazed that some dogs that win Westminster for example are fed plain old Purina puppy chow and do great... I recommend picking a good kibble and sticking with it. The biggest risk of raw, is malnutrition ironically, especially in puppies. Vets hate seeing people put puppies on raw diets because they may not see the secondary effects fast enough and correct them. I also hate corn in a diet, it is a cheap filler but we are finally starting to see it go away as it is no longer cheap :) Also we all dislike corn but you really can't find much supporting research for why. The feed companies argue that dogs eat a lot of grain since the first part of a carcass they eat is the viscera. That is true they do, but not because it is full of grain, it is soft and easy to eat instead of the ripping and tearing associated with muscle tissue, it is very palatable, and easy to get to. The only real proof I ever accepted for dogs being a limited omnivore is that they can masticate (chew) side to side instead of just up and down like carnivores (cats etc). So they are still primarily a carnivore, but a limited omnivore. We all hate corn because it is not very digestible in it's raw form, same as with us. But put it through the GI tract of herbivore animals like pheasants etc. and it is fermented and broken down by bacteria and becomes useable to the dog. Raw corn does not break down well in a dog's system, but recycled corn if you will has bacterial protein associtated with it. Herbivores also don't live much on cellulose, but rather the microbial proteins associated with breaking it down. That is why in the wild grains are a part of a dogs diet is because they are already broken down, and provide fiber. Adding grains and veggies etc to a dogs diet in my opinion don't have much benefit because they are not easy to break down without going through and herbivore first. A good raw diet would be to buy live chickens, feed them for a week or so, and turn them loose in the backyard. Let the dog catch them, kill them and eat them whole, that is a raw diet. Feeding just chicken backs and necks ignores the viscera that is nutritious and palatable. You can also turn out a steer or a lamb and let them dispatch of it in the same way, and continue to gnaw on the carcass as it is softened and made digestible through decomposition. I know it sounds horrid, but that is a real "Natural Diet" and we really are not willing to duplicate that in our lives. There are some great grain free diets like natures variety prairie and instinct formulas. So although kibble seems bland, it truly is much more complete that a typical raw diet.
Hope that opinion helps instead of hinders....
Steve Parsons 480-993-9797 http://www.familydobes.com http://www.dobetalk.com
You know I have given a lot of thought the last few years about how dogs along the way have shaped me into what I am. I have realized that no matter what, boys just can’t grow up into men without good dogs to point them along the way. Naturally I believe Doberman Pinschers are those good dogs J They love us unconditionally, and every boy exploits that, asking dogs to do things they probably shouldn’t, to go places they shouldn’t go and even to take the blame and wrath of mom and dad when we have done something wrong. That unconditional love I think teaches us about forgiveness. Not one of my dogs ever held a grudge for something stupid I asked them to do, and most of the time they would love me enough to do the stupid thing and let me learn a tough lesson. I remember “Teddy” a purebred “Heinz 57” (I was sure that was a breed until much later in life, my parents had convinced me so!) Teddy was my first exposure to protection dogs. I was only 8 at the time and mom had just given me a brand new winter coat, we lived in Midvale Utah at the time, and I was going to need that coat to get through the winter. We didn’t have much growing up, but I had Teddy. I can’t tell you what movie it was or tv show that inspired me to teach a dog to bite my arm, or why I thought that coat would do me any good, but Teddy and I worked on it all day one cold Saturday. Thanks to the terrier genes he had in his family tree, he was happy to play the game once we got started. He shredded that new coat, and with it my arm to some degree J But he would quit when I asked him to, and I think it was that moment that changed the rest of my life. I had no idea how to train a dog, I just knew I loved him, and we did everything together. His training paid off one day as we were coming home and some neighborhood dog made a beeline for me while Teddy was pulling me down the street on my roller skates. Before that dog got close enough Teddy took care of it. I don’t know how he didn’t get hurt or killed, but we had love and loyalty between us. He learned to pull me on skates or sleds and stop when I asked him to, he would sit and shake, and sometimes he would stay until I turned my back J We just worked things out, it is a magic that happens between a boy and his dog. Teddy went through two broken legs and surgeries to boot, he survived a patio roof collapse in a storm, he lived on love heaven knows as I wasn’t the best at feeding and cleaning. He taught me to swim and chase sticks and run through fields. There were many good dogs in my life like Teddy, and the most influential was of course Gretta a Doberman. Those stories will have to wait for another time though… The point is I am what I am for good or bad in large because of the dogs along the way. A boy just isn’t a boy without a dog. I had a sad call today from someone whose boy had just lost his red female dobe yesterday and his parents knew what it meant to that little boy. I reflected with sadness on those times I felt the same pains. I came in from that call back to the family room to see this:
Naturally I started crying and remembering naps just like that one. You can see Coco is wide awake but doesn’t dare disturb her little boy. Ethan has always been like that, when he threw tantrums as a one year old, it was always on Zenny’s bed under his watchful and concerned eye:
And with Texa’s new puppies, you guessed it, the dog that won’t even let my wife in the puppy room:
I sat and thought a long time about all of this today and I was so filled with gratitude that we get to share our lives with such special dogs. I am so grateful my three year old son has found what I found, a true friend. So here is a tribute to all those dogs along the way that shaped us into what we are, it must be similar for girls, as Grace loves the dogs every bit as much as Ty and Ethan, but where the red fern grows helps us to cement it into our boyhood minds. I hope this sentimental moment finds all of you well and enjoying your lives with these special friends, I hope you too are learning from them and slowly learning to love and forgive like them. I hope you shamelessly ask for what you want and need instead of beating around the bush with hidden agendas and I hope you enjoy a nap in the soft grass under the warm sun. Chase things in life you want with enthusiasm, and hang on to what you catch with all your might until it is time to let go. Smile for no reason, and wake up knowing each day is just your favorite thing. Try new things and be loyal to your friends, and fiercely defend your loved ones. Enjoy mud and swimming, and chewing on your favorite treat. Finally although Cliché, may we be the people our dogs think we are. Life is too short not to share it with a friend. J thank all of you for sharing yours with us.
You know how hard it is to find a really good Veterinarian when you are as passionate about your dogs as I am? It is nearly impossible. I expect too much I suppose, since I was a veterinary technician myself, and had always planned on going to Vet school myself (funny how things don’t always go as planned J ). When we moved our kennel to Scottsdale I began going through the phonebook and interviewing different clinics as well as asking for referrals. After an exhausting search I finally found Animal Hospital at Grayhawk. Dr. Howard was in the middle of a very busy day, but he made time to come and talk to me, and answer all my questions. He made a friend of me from the first handshake. I could tell he was a no nonsense kind of guy, and he took me and my dogs seriously from the first moment. I expect my Vets to know everything, that is there job, but realistically no one really can and when they don’t I want them to find the information not fabricate information. I found Dr Howard to be everything I wanted. I couldn’t stump him with my questions, which was good, but he did agree if I did he would find the answer. He let me meet his wonderful staff who also made time for me despite being very busy, and never did I feel rushed, I felt like I had a whole new group of friends. I have had nothing but great experiences with Grayhawk, through whelping assistance, c-sections, routine health checks and certificates, vaccinations or even radiography and bloodwork. Their breeding services including collection and freezing and AI are top notch and run smoothly. This has been a great find for me and my dogs. I don’t trust my best friends to just anyone, but I do trust our champion Doberman Pinschers to Dr Howard and his staff.
Today we went in to have tails and dew claws removed on our new puppies and as always Dr Howard made sure I was happy with the plan and the results, they were efficient and professional and we came away with great results. If you are in the phoenix area, it is worth making the trip from wherever you are to Animal Hospital at Grayhawk J Simply one of the best Vet clinics I have found. If quality matters to you, see the good folks at Grayhawk!
Without fail the most common question I am asked is “How much are your puppies?” I can tell a lot about a client by when they ask that question. If that is the first question out of their mouths, generally these Doberman puppies are not for them, people concerned with price before health quality, temperament etc seldom will appreciate the type of Doberman puppies we raise. I am the type of guy who wants to get my money’s worth just like the bulk of the world, but I finally learned that sometimes that means you spend more to get better value. Cheap isn’t always good. Here are some of my rambling philosophies on value. So how much are our Champion bred Doberman Pinschers? I guess you’ll have to call and ask the right questions to find out J
It is my opinion that you really do get what you pay for in a dog. When you purchase a car, they are priced (through honest people anyway) according to their overall mechanical and cosmetic condition, how they have been cared for, what features they have etc. Thankfully when buying cars there are buying guides to help determine the worth. In Dogs there is no guide to go by. Often I am asked why there is such a difference in the value of my Doberman puppies, and not only my pups, but between my pups and someone else's. It really comes down to value, what are you getting for your dollar, and naturally the environmental factors such as supply and demand influence it as well. I have seen Dobes for sale in today's market for as low as $300. I have seen them as high as $75,000. I have also seen people turn down $300,000 or more on really outstanding dogs. The differences break down roughly like this. Most important is the one thing most first time buyers overlook, that is the "quality" of the breeder. Do they have an understanding of the breed, genetics, and health? Do they have clear breeding goals that they are trying to achieve? Do they have experience? Was this a planned breeding with a goal to get closer to their model of perfection? Most importantly, are they going to be there for you after the purchase? It is my opinion that $300 pups come from accidental breeding or deliberate breeding between two dogs that happen to be Dobermans. Usually the breeding goal is cash. Generally it will be a first time breeder with little or no experience or education. Again this is just my opinion. Generally you will find that the pups will be worth what their parents were worth. It is very rare to find a a world champion quality pup from two $300 dogs. This type of breeder generally has not had any health testing, and likely doesn't have a good vet for regular check-ups and help along the way. This kind of care is very expensive, and the cost must be recouped somewhere. I admit 15 years ago, I raised $300 pups. I learned a lot over the years and developed my program and my education. I have learned that I would lose a great deal of money if I were to breed great quality dogs, from outstanding parents, care for them right and place them in their new homes for $300. It can't be done. Most importantly, I have learned if you have a problem with your $300 dog a year later, the breeder cannot be contacted, cannot remedy the problem, and won't answer your calls about health and training issues. They only answer calls asking about their puppies for sale. Breeder support is more important in many cases than the pup you choose. They have been through it all, they can answer most of your questions, and if you stump them, they know where to go to get the answers. More importantly, they are willing to do all of that. Naturally that time and dedication has value, and has real costs associated with it. Start there first when determining value, then consider the face value of pup. My Doberman puppies are available at a dollar amount according to what I think their potential is. Some dogs will be better athletes than others. Generally those traits are highly heritable, meaning if mom and dad are great athletes their offspring should be as well. Some dogs have better conformation than others making them ideal for show. those traits likewise are highly heritable. Some dogs are lucky enough to have both great conformation and athletic ability. Also important is their genetic potential which becomes a deeper genetic study that I can explain if you want to understand more. Pedigrees are important to some people and that to can influence price. Based on which female produced the pups, we know what to expect from those litters, and that is how we price our pups. What will the demand be for this bloodline, this conformation type, their temperament, the accomplishments of their ancestors as well as their own etc. We only produce pups that will meet our program goals, if they don't we don't continue breeding those females. We have given up many wonderful dogs that did produce great pups this last year because we can only feed so many, and the current girls are that much better. Determine what is important to you with your dog, what you want to accomplish, and then see if that type of dog will fit your budget. If you want to win an international championship, expect to pay more for your pup. If all you want is a great pet, pick one from a breeder with great support, and great health programs and a replacement policy. We want you to get the dog that best meets your needs, and we want you to know you got your money's worth.
Our puppies do cost more than many available out there, and for a good reason. We take time to research and select the best Champion Dobermans for our program, and plan each breeding carefully to produce the right kind of Doberman puppies for you. I want you to get a high quality Doberman puppy that you will be proud of, that will live for many years of effective service. I also want to be a support to you and your new Doberman, and that will take time and resources. Isn't the help and education worth a little more? With dogs you do get what you pay for, and with many dogs they don't come with any support. We will help you raise and train your dog wherever you want or need help.
Being a veterinarian, I had been called to examine a ten-year-old Irish Wolfhound named Belker. The dog's owners, Ron, his wife Lisa, and their little boy Shane, were all very attached to Belker, and they were hoping for a miracle.
I examined Belker and found he was dying of cancer. I told the family we couldn't do anything for Belker, and offered to perform the euthanasia procedure for the old dog in their home.
As we made arrangements, Ron and Lisa told me they thought it would be good for six-year-old Shane to observe the procedure. They felt as though Shane might learn something from the experience.
The next day, I felt the familiar catch in my throat as Belker's family surrounded him. Shane seemed so calm, petting the old dog for the last time, that I wondered if he understood what was going on. Within a few minutes, Belker slipped peacefully away.
The little boy seemed to accept Belker's transition without any difficulty or confusion. We sat together for a while after Belker's Death, wondering aloud about the sad fact that animal lives are shorter than human lives. Shane, who had been listening quietly, piped up, 'I know why.'
Startled, we all turned to him. What came out of his mouth next stunned me. I'd never heard a more comforting explanation.
He said, 'People are born so that they can learn how to live a good Life -- like loving everybody all the time and being nice, right?' The Six-year-old continued, 'Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay as long.'
Live simply.
Love generously.
Care deeply.
Speak kindly.
Remember, if a dog was the teacher you would learn things like:
When loved ones come home, always run to greet them.
Never pass up the opportunity to go for a joyride. Allow the experience of fresh air and the wind in your face to be pure Ecstasy.
Take naps.
Stretch before rising.
Run, romp, and play daily.
Thrive on attention and let people touch you.
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do.
On warm days, stop to lie on your back on the grass.
On hot days, drink lots of water and lie under a shady tree.
When you're happy, dance around and wag your entire body.
Delight in the simple joy of a long walk.
Be loyal.
Never pretend to be something you're not.
If what you want lies buried, dig until you find it.
When someone is having a bad day, be silent, sit close by, and nuzzle them gently.
Right now we have some amazing puppies available! It is very rare that we have young protection prospects suitable of guarding you and your family that are already housetrained and great with children. These puppies have been raised under foot to prepare them for your forever home. They would be very suitable for Schutzhund sport work as well. Perhaps you are interested in doing Search and Rescue, it will take a pup with this kind of drive to be your partner in bringing families and loved ones back together. Naturally all of our pups come with a health and temperament guarantee, and come from health tested parents. Here is a short video to introduce you to these special pups:
To provide you with the best Doberman puppy possible to meet your wants and needs. We believe we have the best European Doberman puppies available anywhere at any price. We have imported all of our Champion Doberman breeding stock directly from Europe where they still have strong selection pressure. The dogs must pass temperament evaluations, and often must have working and conformation titles before they are given license to breed.
Family Dobes has been raising and training Doberman Pinschers for over 20 years. We raise working family companions that have been used for Search and Rescue, Schutzhund, protection, family pets, obedience and agility, even upland bird and waterfowl hunting! Our Doberman puppies have the right temperament, color and conformation, you can't go wrong! We want to help educate you as an owner.
We don't sell you a Doberman puppy and disappear!
Our puppies do cost more than many available out there, and for a good reason. We take time to research and select the best Champion Dobermans for our program, and plan each breeding carefully to produce the right kind of Doberman puppies for you. I want you to get a high quality Doberman puppy that you will be proud of, that will live for many years of effective service. I also want to be a support to you and your new Doberman, and that will take time and resources. Isn't the help and education worth a little more? With dogs you do get what you pay for, and with many dogs they don't come with any support. We will help you raise and train your dog wherever you want or need help.
We have several upcoming litters of Champion bred Doberman puppies.
We offer Champion Doberman Stud Service by live cover or shipped Semen
We also offer protection trained adult Doberman Pinchers as well
If you are contacting us about Protection trained dogs, we need to know if you are in immediate danger! Protectin trained Dobermans are an important part of your personal security system, but they are not the complete system. Here are some other things you need to be doing.
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